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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 5:29:52 GMT
I still think Plant should be Sol rather than Luna. How about Decay for luna venus or anything relating to death? Most death related psynergies are in venus in GS(haunt series, undead series) |
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 9, 2018 12:54:09 GMT
@awec : That's what Astra is. Sol is latin for Sun, Luna for Moon, Astra for Stars. I find it strange, since Stella is singular Star... makes me wonder what's with the wildly different etymology for the words.
Plants have more dark thematics, and are the only flexible form of Venus, so they're a natural fit for Luna. I've never understood why people think plants should be light, because they don't produce light, they eat it.
@dreyraz : I could see that fitting under plants as well, since it might just be "implied organic matter". The categories tend to be broader than their names - I mean, Crystals have both attacking with crystals and just straight up 'lazor beamz'. Same with ice, via the same refractive properties. Prisms be awesome, yo.
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 10, 2018 3:47:26 GMT
Time limit reached. Official system is: 4x3 system of 4 elements with 3 fundaments governing their shapes. The shapes are as follows:
| Venus | Mars | Jupiter | Mercury | | Sol | Crystal | Explosive | Celestial | Ice | | Astra | Stone | Flame | Wind | Water | | Luna | Plants | Corrosive | Lightning | Steam |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 12:56:06 GMT
Since this thread is open again, are we still accepting discussions on it?
Just thought I'd ask before making any further suggestions.
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 12, 2018 0:51:56 GMT
We are. As promised in the discord, here's a 4x3 and a 4x5 option - we'd need a 4x4 suggestion before we vote on it, though. 4x3:
| Venus | Mars | Jupiter | Mercury | | Order/Light | Crystal | Explosive | Celestial | Ice | | Pure Elemental | Stone | Flame | Air | Water | | Chaos/Dark | Plant | Corrosive | Lightning | Steam |
4x4 (to be filled out later):
| Venus | Mars | Jupiter | Mercury | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
We'd need to know both what each form/row represents, as well as what those aspects are. 4x5
| Venus | Mars | Jupiter | Mercury | | Light | Prism | Heat | "Space Lasers" | Rainbow | | Order | Crystal | "Corrosive?" | "Stars?" | Ice | | Pure | Stone | Flame | Air | Water | | Chaos | Plants | Explosive | Lightning | Steam | | Dark | Rot | ? | Miasma | Abyssal |
If it's in quotes, I either can't think of a good name, or are unsure of its placement (corrosive could be Dark if we have a better order form, for instance). You'll notice that explosive moves in this chart compared to 4x3 - that's because Explosive had that position due to its stronger connection to Light than Corrosive's, while this is no longer a justifiable distinction in a 4x5 setup. I want to link back to this when making the poll, so if y'all have ways to improve/fill any of these, please do! |
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Galda
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Post by Galda on Nov 12, 2018 1:21:46 GMT
This might seem uninspired but Dark + Mars could be black flames and instead of "Corrosive" maybe Lava or Magma could be a better fit. That being said, I lean more towards the initial 4x3 system that you proposed.
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 12, 2018 1:26:27 GMT
Yeah, that's the problem I have with it. 4x3 is more flexible thanks to interpretation, while 4x5 starts to stretch it. 4x4 sounds great in theory, but how do you classify things? You'd need base + trio, rather than Base + pairs.
Also, F*** Mars. So freaking difficult to work with. Every other element is so much easier to handle.
oh. Well hey - figured out Light Mercury. Taste the Rainbow, motherf***er.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 12:46:34 GMT
My take on 4x4:
Pure elements will be in an abstract form. This will be the element itself without any form of corruption. There is another entity which exists in 3 different forms(dark/chaos, neutral, light/order). Corrupting these pure elements with the entity will give them the material forms that is in the 4x3.
Pure venus - idea of life(eg. revive)
Pure mars - idea of power(eg. aura)
Pure jupiter - idea of truth(eg. mindread, reveal)
Pure mercury - idea of purity(eg. cure poison, restore, pure wish)
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 12, 2018 13:47:03 GMT
As nice as discussions on abstract natures might be and all, they don't exactly lend themselves well to an actual video game. I think we need to be more practical in our approach, rather than philosophical. ^-^;
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 23:43:49 GMT
Mars Order could be balls of plasma (real plasma, superheated gas, not the sparkling explosive balls of energy from GS)
Mars Dark could be Ash/Smoke
Jupiter Order could be Electricity/Lightning whereas Jupiter Chaos could be Storms (of all kinds)
I like Miasma/Disease for Jupiter Dark tho
I think you'd need to explain exactly what Abyssal meant if we went with that system.
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 14, 2018 14:07:40 GMT
Wow, I don't like most of those ideas. Mars Order is basically a distinction between flames and fireballs as somehow being different.
Mars Dark doesn't really seem like it fits the idea - closest thing GS had to it was the Fury djinn I think (the one that attacked with all those mars ghost things to haunt the enemy), but would a whole aspect based on spirits be feasible?
That just makes lightning be both order and chaos - semantic distinction won't matter, only practical ones would...
Abyssal would be a combination of the kinds of dark spirits and using water pressure of the deep seas I figure.
All this speak more to problems I'm having with a 4x5 system (it's not your ideas that are bad here, it's just so hard to work with)... It's so hard to come up with something broad enough to fill it out. :C 4x4 is tough to figure out from a practical approach... but 4x3 works really well, because you keep everything broad and open to interpretation. Only problem is that there's 4 characters, so there's gonna be overlap.
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Post by Orange Bran on Nov 14, 2018 22:20:15 GMT
I just thought a 4x4 could be easier using the classical elements, but I can't figure out the whole chart
| Mars
| Venus | Jupiter | Mercury | | Fire | Flame | Crystal | Lightning | Steam | | Earth | Volcanic | Stone | Celestial | Ice | | Air | Explosive | Death? | Wind | Life? | | Water | Corrosive | Plants | ? | Water |
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Post by Anggel on Nov 14, 2018 23:30:00 GMT
Regarding the 4x5 table of Rolina I came up with the following as a pitch to cover the quoted regions: Jupiter-Order -> Electromagnetic forces (electromagnetism follows an order) Jupiter-Light -> Two options: - (I) Here plasma state and spells (like Plasma, Light Plasma etc), and wont be "space lasers".
- (II) Swap lightning here and plasma would be chaos-light (plasma itself is a unstable state).
Dark-Mars -> Radiation (radioactive waves, cosmic rays... etc) "space lasers" would be here since it's radiation (dark because usually can't be seen with eyes; mars because produces heat; and also like dark-earth rot, adverse effects like decomposition of materials... etc). Order-Mars -> Two options: - (I) Redox. Oxidative processes such as corrosion, rust, digestion like you said... (because fire is a rapid oxidation, with order would be something that's not explosive, nor pure, it's more stable because it's the trigger of fire (when fire is ordered), and also doesn't have to start a fire) (spells with mechanics of rusting metals in the overworld puzzles... etc)
- (II) Will-o-wisps (spirits materialized in will-o-wisps, ordered because the soul is collapsed in one fire) (death spells such as Condemn, Curse would fall here or in Rot, also spells that are more effective to undead enemies)
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Post by WitchRolina on Nov 15, 2018 16:08:02 GMT
I just thought a 4x4 could be easier using the classical elements, but I can't figure out the whole chart
| Mars
| Venus | Jupiter | Mercury | | Fire | Flame | Crystal | Lightning | Steam | | Earth | Volcanic | Stone | Celestial | Ice | | Air | Explosive | Death? | Wind | Life? | | Water | Corrosive | Plants | ? | Water |
This would drastically change how we approach the idea of fundaments, and would basically lock everyone into base forms - so no natural lightning or plant users using that method. It'd require a class change to access any non-base form. Definitely an interesting take on things. |
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Post by Falgor on Nov 16, 2018 2:38:22 GMT
It might just be me but for the 4x3 I'd feel like Ice and Steam should be reversed, and like @awec , that Plants fit Sol more than Luna (because photosynthesis). But WitchRolina 's explanation makes sense too. About the first two it's probably because I associate Light with "being warm". Though I understand that Ice fits Order better and Steam fits Chaos better but they're generally harder to grasp concepts. Also, I tried to make my own version of 4x4, using a lot of ideas in this thread I found neat (some things could probably be moved around a bit) and putting my own perception/twist on them:
| Venus | Mars
| Jupiter
| Mercury | | Stella1 | Earth2 | Flame | Wind | Water | | Sol | Plants | Explosion/Volcanic | Celestial | Rainbow (+Steam?) | | Luna | Decay3/Rot | Corrosive? | Disease (+Curse?) | Ice | | Mankind4 | Metal | Heat | Electricity (+Pressure?) | Steam? Pressure? |
3 Could include Sand4 Meant as "Mastery of each Element"I went with the idea of creating a reflection of each Element: Stella for Jupiter, Sol for Mars, Luna for Mercury and Mankind for Venus (think of that Venus puzzle in Mars Lighthouse). I find the latter interesting because Adepts were always people trying to master Alchemy, while humans tend to generally try to master everything so it's useful to them. The parallel is interesting imo. In GS the Psynergy comes from the spirit, so it should be easy for someone to "manipulate" it and be more creative with it, yet a majority of Psynergy is rather natural themed. The "Mankind" fundament could perhaps be an interesting one that allows for a bit more diversity. |
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