Post by WitchRolina on Nov 19, 2018 3:29:18 GMT
With the class structure determined as the Harmonic System, the next steps are to figure out how to stat them up, and how to build their spells. In this thread, we'll be covering spells, while another thread will be covering stats.
As far as spells go, we have several things we have to determine:
To start with, we'll want to discuss the types of spells. My work on the Gradient Soul system would work well as a seed for this discussion. While it incorporates mechanics that we won't be using (level efficiency, dual-stat offenses and defenses, aim and avoid stats, etc), the raw mechanical ideas were designed to work with a Golden Sun style setup. Take a look in here for the various ideas as we discuss what kinds of spells to create.
Proper XLSX version on DropBox
"Good Enough" Google Docs version
The next step is to distribute the stats across the classes. To do this, we look at what each type of class line represents, using the original Harmonic System's pitch as our seed:
In golden sun, all classes had 16 slots for the developers to put spells into. Class lines ranged from having 13 of those slots, all the way to a full 16 slots. I think we should adopt this system, as the limitations force us to find ways to make classes stand apart from one another. Note, however, that I said sixteen slots, not sixteen spells. There tended to be two types of upgrades for spells - incremental and evolutionary. Spells like Ragnarok evolved into greater spells as the rank of a class increased, effectively having a full spell line take up a single spell slot. Conversely, spells like Gaia add new slots with each incremental update.
Some terms to know:
Striker - DPS focused role. Uses direct, offensive spells.
Protector - Tank-based role. Uses direct, defensive spells.
Controller - Tactician role. Uses indirect, offensive spells.
Supporter - Healer role. Uses indirect, defensive spells.
Spell Slot - One of 16 slots that can be assigned a spell in a class. Each class must be made within these limitations.
Incremental Spell - A spell that takes up additional slots when a new version of it is learned.
Evolutionary Spell - A spell that changes form when a new version is learned, never taking up extra slots.
Primary Spell - a required spell line, based on the standard spell types seen in Golden Sun (Ex: Gaia, Volcano, etc)
Secondary Spell - a second required spell line, based on the standard spell types seen in Golden Sun
Standby Spell - a spell that requires a set djinn of a specific element to cast, that sends them into Standby mode
Set Spell - a spell that requires a standby djinn of a specific element to cast, that sends them into Set mode
Recovery Spell - a spell that requires a standby djinn of a specific element to cast, that sends them into recovery mode when cast.
Signature Burst - a spell that requires a standby djinn of a specific element to cast, using the energy to inflict stronger damage.
Signature Spell - a spell based on the the components of the class. Its behavior is dependent on the role/approach of the class.
Mono- and Dual- Element classes:
These classes perform a single role, and do it well. Classes designed in these categories can only be built in a way that they qualify for a single role. For instance, though it's possible to build a class that qualifies for both the Striker and Supporter roles, such classes are better left for Tri- or Tetra- type classes. All mono- and dual- element classes have one Basic Base spell line. These are the weakest spell lines in the game, such as Quake, Flare, and Frost. Each of these spell lines has a field effect, which is why they are required (from a mechanics standpoint). They also require either an Advanced or an Expert spell line. This can be of the Base, Zone, Residual, Mine, Turret, or similar varieties. If an Expert Spell Line is learned, but without an Advanced spell line, the Expert Spell line is learned one class rank sooner (ex: If Isaac knows Gaia but not Spire, he can use Gaia at Knight instead of having to wait for Gallant).
The Striker Role (DPS - Direct Offense) uses a Signature Move style approach using the Burst Spell. As a focused spell is a prerequisite of a burst spell, it is required as well.
The Protector Role (Tank - Direct Defense) uses a Signature Move style approach using the Counter Spell. As a focused spell is a prerequisite of a counter spell, it is required as well.
The Controller Role (Tactician - Indirect Offense) uses a Quantitative approach to its spells. To qualify as a controller, a class must have 6 control-type spells. Though controllers have the option of a focused spell, they cannot learn counter or burst spells.
The Support Role (Healer - Indirect Defense) uses a Quantitative approach to its spells. To qualify as a supporter, a class must have 6 support-type spells, three of which must be taken up by a healing spell line. Though supporters can learn focused spells, they cannot learn counter or burst spells.
Tri-Element classes:
Tri Element classes are designed in pairs. They take advantage of the ability to change classes to toggle back and forth between classes as they need to. The use of Djinn, both Unleashing and Resetting, as well as the use of Signature Burst spells allow the player to switch back and forth between classes as they need, allowing the two classes to work together as a pair of classes with related themes and symbiotic goals.To accomplish this, these classes have three signature spells - a Standby Spell, a Set Spell, and a Recovery Spell, defined above. These spells act similar to other spell types, with some added bonuses and the added cost of toggling the state of a djinn. For example:
As an example: Talia is in a Tri-Element class. The pair is built around debilitating the enemy, then switching classes to exploit the debilitations. She spends two turns using a debuff and an ailment, then unleashes a djinn, switching her class. In the new class, she unleashes one of her Signature spells, but the target recovered from some of their debilitations, so she uses the same djinn, gaining a benefit from its Reset ability. She inflicts more ailments, then uses a different djinn to seal the ability the monster used to cure itself, and moves to finish it off with her Signature Surge spell - inflicting a significant amount of damage, but throwing the djinn into recovery mode.
Talia is in a Tri-element class. The pair is built around debilitating the enemy, then switching classes to exploit the debilitations. She spends two turns using a debuff and an ailment, then uses her Standby Spell, inflicting a third ailment and switching into the exploit class. She begins by using a buff in this class, then uses the Recovery spell to inflict heavy damage to the foe, made more powerful for each debuff and ailment the foe was inflicted with. She strikes out with one additional attack, before her djinn recovers and she shifts into the debilitation class.
Like with Mono- and Dual- element classes, Tri-Element classes require two standard spell line types. However, unlike the basic classes, they don't require basic spells. The only rules are that they cannot have more than one type of the same spell.
Tetra-Elemental Classes:
Tetra Element classes are a jack of trades class, master of none. They don't share many of the restrictions of other classes, able to use otherwise incompatible spell types in the same class, such as Burst and Counter spells. The only specific rules are that they have to have two standard spell line types at minimum. Like usual, they can't have two of the same type of spell in the class.
Separating Characters from one another:
But what makes one striker different than another? Well, even though we have standard spells, those standard spells come in different forms. What's more, specialized spells have a variety of choices to pick from. Let's look at a hypothetical setup, using the Striker Role.
Venus Guy: Our rogue has debuffs in his open slots to set the enemy up, then uses Piercing and Exploit Spells to inflict huge amounts of damage on the foe.
Mars Girl: A more honorable character, mars girl buffs herself up, enchants her blade with flame, then uses the traditional Might and Surge Spell combo (think: Quick Strike, Annihilation).
Jupiter Guy: A man who fights for his friends, he throws down barriers and heals while using Piercing and Surge Spells to strike down the enemy.
Talia: Always thinking tactically, she seals the foe's spells and paralyzes them, striking them down with a Might spell (think: Cutting Edge, Diamond Berg), as well as an Exploit spell.
Here we have four attackers, but each one feeling a bit different. Venus guy, our rogue, weakens the enemy's defenses to do set up for massive damage. Talia, though taking a similar approach, instead opts to bind the foe, cutting off their offensive capabilities before pragmatically dispatching the foe. Jupiter guy tries to keep his friends safe, while Mars Girl empowers her weapon in order to do a great amount of damage.
And that's just from their signature spell choices and their Open Slots. We haven't even covered their standard spell types. Our rogue probably throws down mine spells, craftily punishing enemy aggression. Our tactician likely throws down zone spells, doing damage to an area over time while slowing the enemy and restraining their movement. There's many ways we can have these guys stand apart from each other, even when they're in classes that are supposed to be doing the same job.
Also, remember that in Golden Sun, statistical multipliers and spells are divorced from each other to a degree - but both are still dependant on the teammates. You change classes to the element of the tank, you get the stats you need to do the tank role your class is going to encourage you to do. Do not let traditional ideas of how mages and warriors fight get in the way of your creativity.
As far as spells go, we have several things we have to determine:
- What types of spells will we use, how do they differ from one another, and how would they work mechanically?
- How do we assign spells to classes to get the classes to stand apart from one another?
- How do we assign classes to characters to make the characters stand apart from each other?
Proper XLSX version on DropBox
"Good Enough" Google Docs version
The next step is to distribute the stats across the classes. To do this, we look at what each type of class line represents, using the original Harmonic System's pitch as our seed:
- Mono-Elemental Classes represent an expression of the character's personality. It follows one of four patterns, detailed below.
- Dual-Elemental Classes represent a character's take on their teammates' personalities. It uses one of the four patterns below used by the adept of the element they switch to.
- Tri-Elemental Classes come in pairs (ex: Samurai and Ninja), designed to work in tandem with one another. They use mid-battle class changing to their advantage
- Tetra-Elemental Classes tend to be all-around classes that don't fit neatly into one specific category. They rely on their higher stats and brute force to get things done.
In golden sun, all classes had 16 slots for the developers to put spells into. Class lines ranged from having 13 of those slots, all the way to a full 16 slots. I think we should adopt this system, as the limitations force us to find ways to make classes stand apart from one another. Note, however, that I said sixteen slots, not sixteen spells. There tended to be two types of upgrades for spells - incremental and evolutionary. Spells like Ragnarok evolved into greater spells as the rank of a class increased, effectively having a full spell line take up a single spell slot. Conversely, spells like Gaia add new slots with each incremental update.
Some terms to know:
Striker - DPS focused role. Uses direct, offensive spells.
Protector - Tank-based role. Uses direct, defensive spells.
Controller - Tactician role. Uses indirect, offensive spells.
Supporter - Healer role. Uses indirect, defensive spells.
Spell Slot - One of 16 slots that can be assigned a spell in a class. Each class must be made within these limitations.
Incremental Spell - A spell that takes up additional slots when a new version of it is learned.
Evolutionary Spell - A spell that changes form when a new version is learned, never taking up extra slots.
Primary Spell - a required spell line, based on the standard spell types seen in Golden Sun (Ex: Gaia, Volcano, etc)
Secondary Spell - a second required spell line, based on the standard spell types seen in Golden Sun
Set Spell - a spell that requires a standby djinn of a specific element to cast, that sends them into Set mode
Recovery Spell - a spell that requires a standby djinn of a specific element to cast, that sends them into recovery mode when cast.
Signature Burst - a spell that requires a standby djinn of a specific element to cast, using the energy to inflict stronger damage.
Signature Spell - a spell based on the the components of the class. Its behavior is dependent on the role/approach of the class.
Mono- and Dual- Element classes:
These classes perform a single role, and do it well. Classes designed in these categories can only be built in a way that they qualify for a single role. For instance, though it's possible to build a class that qualifies for both the Striker and Supporter roles, such classes are better left for Tri- or Tetra- type classes. All mono- and dual- element classes have one Basic Base spell line. These are the weakest spell lines in the game, such as Quake, Flare, and Frost. Each of these spell lines has a field effect, which is why they are required (from a mechanics standpoint). They also require either an Advanced or an Expert spell line. This can be of the Base, Zone, Residual, Mine, Turret, or similar varieties. If an Expert Spell Line is learned, but without an Advanced spell line, the Expert Spell line is learned one class rank sooner (ex: If Isaac knows Gaia but not Spire, he can use Gaia at Knight instead of having to wait for Gallant).
Striker Role | Cannot have | counter spells | |
Focused Spell | Burst Spell | --- | Open |
Basic Base 1 | Basic Base 2 | Basic Base 3 | Open |
Secondary 1 | Secondary 2 | Secondary 3 | Open |
Open | Open | Open | Open |
Protector Role | Cannot have | burst spells | |
Focused Spell | Counter Spell | --- | Open |
Basic Base 1 | Basic Base 2 | Basic Base 3 | Open |
Secondary 1 | Secondary 2 | Secondary 3 | Open |
Open | Open | Open | Open |
Controller Role | Cannot have | counter or | burst spells |
Basic Base 1 | Basic Base 2 | Basic Base 3 | Open |
Secondary 1 | Secondary 2 | Secondary 3 | Open |
Control 1 | Control 2 | Control 3 | Open |
Control 4 | Control 5 | Control 6 | --- |
Support Role | Cannot have | counter or | burst spells |
Basic Base 1 | Basic Base 2 | Basic Base 3 | Open |
Secondary 1 | Secondary 2 | Secondary 3 | Open |
Healing 1 | Healing 2 | Healing 3 | Open |
Support 1 | Support 2 | Support 3 | --- |
Tri-Element classes:
Tri Element classes are designed in pairs. They take advantage of the ability to change classes to toggle back and forth between classes as they need to. The use of Djinn, both Unleashing and Resetting, as well as the use of Signature Burst spells allow the player to switch back and forth between classes as they need, allowing the two classes to work together as a pair of classes with related themes and symbiotic goals.
As an example: Talia is in a Tri-Element class. The pair is built around debilitating the enemy, then switching classes to exploit the debilitations. She spends two turns using a debuff and an ailment, then unleashes a djinn, switching her class. In the new class, she unleashes one of her Signature spells, but the target recovered from some of their debilitations, so she uses the same djinn, gaining a benefit from its Reset ability. She inflicts more ailments, then uses a different djinn to seal the ability the monster used to cure itself, and moves to finish it off with her Signature Surge spell - inflicting a significant amount of damage, but throwing the djinn into recovery mode.
Like with Mono- and Dual- element classes, Tri-Element classes require two standard spell line types. However, unlike the basic classes, they don't require basic spells. The only rules are that they cannot have more than one type of the same spell.
Tri-Element | |||
Signature Burst | Signature Spell | Signature Spell | Open |
Primary 1 | Primary 2 | Primary 3 | Open |
Secondary 1 | Secondary 2 | Secondary 3 | Open |
Open | Open | Open | Open |
Tetra-Elemental Classes:
Tetra Element classes are a jack of trades class, master of none. They don't share many of the restrictions of other classes, able to use otherwise incompatible spell types in the same class, such as Burst and Counter spells. The only specific rules are that they have to have two standard spell line types at minimum. Like usual, they can't have two of the same type of spell in the class.
Tetra-Element | |||
Primary 1 | Primary 2 | Primary 3 | Open |
Secondary 1 | Secondary 2 | Secondary 3 | Open |
Open | Open | Open | Open |
Open | Open | Open | Open |
Separating Characters from one another:
But what makes one striker different than another? Well, even though we have standard spells, those standard spells come in different forms. What's more, specialized spells have a variety of choices to pick from. Let's look at a hypothetical setup, using the Striker Role.
Venus Guy: Our rogue has debuffs in his open slots to set the enemy up, then uses Piercing and Exploit Spells to inflict huge amounts of damage on the foe.
Mars Girl: A more honorable character, mars girl buffs herself up, enchants her blade with flame, then uses the traditional Might and Surge Spell combo (think: Quick Strike, Annihilation).
Jupiter Guy: A man who fights for his friends, he throws down barriers and heals while using Piercing and Surge Spells to strike down the enemy.
Talia: Always thinking tactically, she seals the foe's spells and paralyzes them, striking them down with a Might spell (think: Cutting Edge, Diamond Berg), as well as an Exploit spell.
Here we have four attackers, but each one feeling a bit different. Venus guy, our rogue, weakens the enemy's defenses to do set up for massive damage. Talia, though taking a similar approach, instead opts to bind the foe, cutting off their offensive capabilities before pragmatically dispatching the foe. Jupiter guy tries to keep his friends safe, while Mars Girl empowers her weapon in order to do a great amount of damage.
And that's just from their signature spell choices and their Open Slots. We haven't even covered their standard spell types. Our rogue probably throws down mine spells, craftily punishing enemy aggression. Our tactician likely throws down zone spells, doing damage to an area over time while slowing the enemy and restraining their movement. There's many ways we can have these guys stand apart from each other, even when they're in classes that are supposed to be doing the same job.
Also, remember that in Golden Sun, statistical multipliers and spells are divorced from each other to a degree - but both are still dependant on the teammates. You change classes to the element of the tank, you get the stats you need to do the tank role your class is going to encourage you to do. Do not let traditional ideas of how mages and warriors fight get in the way of your creativity.