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Post by WitchRolina on Dec 16, 2018 21:35:31 GMT
sundaes created this as a concept. Consensus in the meeting was that the face of the left one, but the body of the right one was best: ![](https://i.imgur.com/nqYIkAN.jpg)
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Post by sandman on Jan 10, 2019 15:12:20 GMT
I spoke with Zeldafan about this idea in late November and at first they felt it would change things too much but praised parts of the pitch. I've adapted it lightly and have decided to post it anyway. The idea will likely get backlash because it would be changing something people are passionate about while not changing the mechanics, only the appearance of them and how it's been implemented. Personally I feel it would help simplify the world and if anything expand on possibility for both world building and player experience. I ask you to keep an open mind to the possibility and to think of the potential of this idea...
... What if we were to remove Djinn? No magical animals, no mythical spirits or sprites that give power ups. In removing them we would take a stance perpendicular to Golden Sun rather than parallel, and allow us to stand on our own merits of world building rather than on the coat tails of another game. All while sticking close from a design standpoint -- all by changing the presentation.
I propose the idea to assign the roles that Djinn fulfilled to artefacts that contain what I'll call "Quintessence": Class/stat change, summoning, magical abilities. Quintessence in this world could be a mineral to be mined, or an artefact devolved by alchemists. Quintessence in medieval science and history is another name for Aether: the theoretical fifth classical element, and was theorised to be concocted and used in medicine. In this world it could be used militaristically and be used in items the party holds. Items that can be found by the party, developed in world and purchased. All imbued with elemental power and enhance the ability of Adepts. Not unlike the powers of Djinn.
However if we're particularly keen on the idea of having animals or sprites be represented in a magical sense, I propose they be presented as Familiars. Familiars are the servants and partners of mages. Give them personalities and have them serve an active role in the plot as extensions of the lead characters rather than the passive one of a collectable and power up. Have the familiars act as a catalyst for mystical power and thaumaturgy. Additionally, instead of summoning hulking monstrosities or deities from different myths we can use Quintessence and the power it holds to fuel the Familiar to grow and serve as a combat summon.
Using this idea, the player is able to completely customise their party and their abilities based on what Quintessence and what items they have available. Not every item will or should have quintessence as the player makes their way through the game, but quintessential items of various forms can be found, purchased or developed by the party with enough in game currency and materials. Facilitating the players ability to tailor their experience of the game.
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Post by firedjinn on Jan 11, 2019 1:41:57 GMT
Oooh, I like those ideas! I don't have time to draw anything right now, but these are definitely cool concepts.
Some ideas of my own, in the same vein:
* A Mercury djinni that uses its orb to float around in a large body of water, bobbing on the surface. It might be reached by draining the water, or walking on the surface like in Mercury Lighthouse.
* An easily startled Jupiter djinni that escapes by flying away off like a balloon when cornered, forcing the player to chase it somewhere with a ceiling to trap it. * A grumpy Venus djinni that just... hides in a stump and throws rocks at you or something.
Those are just ideas, of course.
edit: I love those Mercury djinni designs!
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Post by WitchRolina on Jan 11, 2019 14:12:29 GMT
firedjinn sandman What are your responses to the questions asked by Anggel in this post? project-flint.boards.net/post/606We're trying to get a general feel for how the people of this project want to approach the djinn. The discussion will use that data as the base for the discussion.
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Galda
Localizer
I just..... like Cats. That's it
Posts: 25
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Post by Galda on Jan 12, 2019 0:35:11 GMT
Okay so answering Anggels' questions here:
-I think a mix between fantastical creatures and/or humanoid/fairy form would look cool
-My idea here is to have 16 base Djinn (one for each aspect of the system) and only one of those can form a pact/bond with a party member and as their bond gets stronger the Djinni evolves accordingly.
-A glyph could represent their aspect.
-And a Gemstone their element.
-As the Djinni grow stronger we could change their design to make them look more menacing until they reach their final form.
I don't know what you guys think about this, just my two cents.
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Post by Falgor on Jan 12, 2019 0:51:37 GMT
Reposting my previous post with the addition of the 5th question:
1) Main theme: Animals. I'd go with a more minimalistic approach to zeldafan30's idea to make them ethereal like Zelda Twilight Princess' Spirits of Light. I think it would greatly reduce the comparisons to Pokémon already (I doubt we can avoid comparisons to absolutely everything so I wouldn't bother too much with that).
2) Number of elemental designs: I feel like 16 Djinn would work better. Since I personally have at least 4 of each it's simply a matter of picking the ones people prefer I guess.
3) Symbolizing the element they belong to: The color of their stone (Yellow/Red/Light Purple/Blue) extends to them/their body.
4) Sharing something in their designs: Like shown in daiset 's original concept art, they carry a stone and their powers come from it (maybe emphasized by a string of energy between the stone and the animal). They could also easily share the same kind of eyes. However I feel like a symbol would be a bit too much for a minimalistic approach.
5) Making variations and mutations of those main elementals by its name or unique: The names should change, but probably not the designs. Instead they can just show different personalities like WitchRolina suggested.
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Post by zeldafan30 on Jan 12, 2019 22:39:26 GMT
OKAY!
time to answer some questions about Djinn!
Decide the main theme for the elementals (abstract creature, animals, fantasy creatures, original creature, humanoid, nymph/fairy, some fancy combo...)
I KNOW I was an advocate for them being fantasy-ish animals, but after thinking it through, I think they should be fantasy or mythological creatures. I feel like it would just... fit.
Decide if we should aim of making 16 elementals or 4 elemental for the pure element alignment, and other 4 for the pure fundament.
I think we should go with the 4 elementals idea, buuut this here is kind of a worldbuilding idea, as Rolina already stated.
Decide how we symbolize the element/aspect in their designs
Well, if we are basing them off of mythological creatures, then their designs should be based on what those mythological creatures represent. Sounds simple enough... probably.
Decide if given a theme, they share a thing in their design (eyes, some crystal, some symbol...)
I think they should have a common theme, that way it's easy to tell if they are a Djinn (or whatever they are called) or not. We already have the salamander holding that little orb thing. Maybe we could use that. What the orb IS, however... idk, a stone containing the essence of their respective element? Perhaps the essence of the element itself?
Decide if we should aim like DD of making variations and mutations of those main elementals by its name or unique.
This would be awesome! But, let's not. I feel like we don't really need to do so, plus it'd be a lot of extra work for the artists that I think is not necessary. If we DO have variations, make it the position or how they hold the orb but that's about the only physical change I'd think would be simple to work with and we don't have to design a new Djinn every time.
OKAY!
Mission complete.
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Post by Taz on Jan 13, 2019 23:18:05 GMT
While 16 aspects of Djinn seems to be a somewhat popular answer, something that I want to make imperative for the artists in particular is that even if that number proves infeasible, there are two more aspects of Djinn that absolutely need designs above all the others: Plant aspect Venusians, to go with Venusguy's decided innate, and Lightning aspect Jovians, to go with Zach's. By the benevolence of extreme fortune, Fire and Water aspects of Djinn already have extant designs, which fit well with Marsgirl's and Talia's innate aspects respectively, so getting the other two designed before all the others seems like an imperative priority.
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Post by WitchRolina on Jan 14, 2019 12:55:30 GMT
So people are clear - no pitch I've seen for having 16 djinn includes using all 16 on the team - it's mostly a worldbuilding thing, but for the sake of the party only 4 will be used. The idea is that if we have another game, with characters using different aspects in their base classes, that which 4 we use would be different, but there'd still be only 4 of the 16 used.
So what Taz says is right - whether we wind up using all 16 djinn type in the game or just 4, with the others merely implied to exist in the world, the Plant and Lightning djinn are what we should be focusing on. If we follow the pattern we have with the Salamander and the Undine, I can say that a great choice for plant would be Dryad, though I'm open to ideas for what the lightning one would be. I don't know of any elemental-like creatures typically associated with it.
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Post by sandman on Jan 15, 2019 20:36:45 GMT
"Decide the main theme for the elementals (abstract creature, animals, fantasy creatures, original creature, humanoid, nymph/fairy, some fancy combo...)" I'm fond of an abstract creature, somewhat humanoid or animal like features. Perhaps a tangible spirit that can be captured in a lamp, cage or thurible like container. Relate the spirits lore wise to the origins of modern magic as otherworldly beings slipping through the astral plane and into the material one??? Or endangered creatures from the "Old world"
"Decide if we should aim of making 16 elementals or 4 elemental for the pure element alignment, and other 4 for the pure fundament." 4 Pure elements is easiest though 16 would be interesting. The art team should have enough power behind it to design the 16.
"Decide how we symbolize the element/aspect in their designs" Other than colour, and perhaps different alchemical symbols somewhere on their bodies, different masks - I think their aura could be a sign. Maybe incorporate this into Game Design as well in a weather system. I.E. The air becomes difficult to breath when near a Fire Djinn (smoke), the air is humid near a Water Djinn, strong winds near a Wind Djinn, and short earthquakes near Earth Djinn... Maybe make it a mini puzzle in order to reach each Djinn.
"Decide if given a theme, they share a thing in their design (eyes, some crystal, some symbol...)" Crystals as catalysts for power??? Not unlike Magic Wands or Staves, the Crystals from Djinn could be used as a Focus for Sages to channel their power. Borrowing from the Djinn techniques???
"Decide if we should aim like DD of making variations and mutations of those main elementals by its name or unique." I think the idea of unique, mutated Djinn amidst the "commons" or as the only attainable Djinn has some merit. But I am all for either decision. The art department has enough power to make it happen.
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PK_Water
Writer
Already Half Xehanort
Posts: 27
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Post by PK_Water on Jan 20, 2019 19:40:02 GMT
there's a poll now so here's your "new" notification
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Post by Anggel on Feb 2, 2019 16:58:59 GMT
About this idea, it would interesting to see if another name should fit better to those creatures, because I feel that "djinn" is a codename as of now and not the final name. Also, if we truly decide to name those creatures "djinn", I think we may face problems related C&D (even if that name exists in mythologies as well).
Another examples from other games are: familiars, spirits, guardians, embodiments... etc. It would be interesting that writers' team brainstorm another name that would fit best regarding to the lore and story. Of course, it doesn't have to be as of now, since I feel we don't have enough lore decided (but the time of the discussion should take place is up to the writers). This is just a reminder for the future when this idea has been polished enough so we can come up with an official name and not stick with "djinn" codename.
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Post by WitchRolina on Feb 2, 2019 20:20:04 GMT
Looks like 4 djinn won the poll. If the current pattern continues, then we have Sylph and Gnome to design still. Anggel: I like "Elementals" or "Spirits" myself. I'm pretty sure we're all on the same boat when it comes to calling them Djinn - 100% internal use right here. :D
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Post by Taz on Feb 2, 2019 21:18:18 GMT
I personally didn't have a problem with calling them djinn, since that is 100% a public domain mythological creature, but this is not a hill I am going to die on.
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Post by WitchRolina on Feb 8, 2019 2:16:30 GMT
/me shrugs
When I think djinn, I typically think specifically of GS's creatures. These are functionally similar, but different enough in design and place in the world that I'd not be terribly comfortable calling them djinn. Spirits and Elementals are safe bets, but I'm sure we can find something more exotic sounding that fits the bill, thus keeping the same feel the term djinn had.
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