Post by WitchRolina on Nov 4, 2018 18:19:04 GMT
Statistical Values - Abstracting Character Strengths and Weaknesses
What are you good at? Some people are good at sports, showing great athleticism and endurance. Some people are good at strategy and tactics, and may find themselves enjoying more intellectual pursuits, such as chess or strategy RPGs. In fantasy settings popular in games often portray these strengths through statistical values, leading each character to have a strengths and weaknesses to set them apart from others. Gradient Soul, being a system heavily based on Golden Sun, is no exception. Unlike Golden Sun however, Gradient Soul's design philosophies necessitated a notable expansion to the statistical values Golden Sun itself used. These statistics, and what they mean, are outlined below.
Character Level
An abstract representation of a character's overall skill and experience as an adept. As they gain experience in using their spells, an adept's skills increase. While combat is not the only means of gaining experience and increasing an adept's level, it is what tends to push the adept's limits the most, and thus generates the most growth. However, Level is only a gauge of an adept's raw ability, and does not factor in things such as nuance and flexibility gained by an adept when made to use their spells in creative or subtle ways. The higher the level, the more raw ability and spells an adept has at their disposal.
Vital Stats
Health (HP) (GS: HP)
A character’s ability to remain standing when taking damage, as well as their ability to mitigate damage. This does not actually refer to how healthy or sickly they are, though. In games, as health appears to go up, it can be argued that what’s actually more accurate is that the percentage of damage that an attack would have done to the character has gone down, as the character has learned to cope with it better. When high, a character has taken little damage, perhaps a scrape or shallow cut at worst. When low, a character has taken a great many wounds, and may struggle to stay on their feet.
Energy (EP) (GS: PP)
The combination of a character innate energetic reserves and their ability to channel spells efficiently. As a character gets stronger, they don’t necessarily get more energy, but instead it can be more accurately stated that they become better at using it efficiently. Experience in using a spell has allowed the caster to be more efficient in its casting, thus it takes up a lower percentage of the caster’s energy reserves. When high, a character has plenty of energy to use, and goes about normally. When low, a character feels tired, is breathing heavily from the exertion, and if pushed too hard might collapse from exhaustion.
Balance (BP) New
A character's ability to withstand blows and fight unphased. As a character gets stronger, they are able to mitigate abilities that would exhaust and stagger them, as well as be able to withstand more punishment before being sent into that state. This stat restores itself in battle as a character regains their composure - however, should it be reduced to zero, the character enters the Staggered state. While staggered, a character cannot act, and their natural defenses are ignored by attacks. The character will recover after at the end of the next round in combat (each round being roughly 6-7 seconds of combat).
Offensive Stats
Attack (ATK) (GS: Attack)
A combination of a character’s strength, the strength of their weapon to deal physical blows, and their ability to wield the weapon effectively. As a character gets stronger, the increase in physical strength they have actually does little to affect this stat – rather, having better weapons and getting more skillful with those weapons is where much of the growth in the stat comes from. Primary source of damage for physical weapons, secondary source of damage for physical projectile weapons. Affects accuracy of physical blows.
Casting (CST) New
A combination of a character’s innate psynergetic might, the strength of their weapon to channel psynergy, and their ability to wield spells effectively. As a character gets stronger, though their innate psynergetic might may increase, the main source of increasing casting comes from being more effective with their spells and gaining higher quality weapons. Primary source of damage for mystic weapons, secondary source of damage for mystical projectile weapons. Affects accuracy of mystical blows.
Aim (AIM) New
A gauge of a character's ability to land blows and spells accurately. As a character gains more experience, they are able to judge their blows more effectively. Additionally, well built weapons make this easier for the character. Aim isn't just about hitting the target, though - it is also about hitting the intended part of the target. As a result, it also factors into the ability for characters to do damage. Primary source of damage for projectile weapons, secondary source of damage for all other weapons. Affects accuracy of all blows.
Defensive Stats
Defense (DEF) (GS: Defense)
A combination of a character’s durability, the strength of their armor to protect against physical blows, and their skill to negate physical damage. As a character grows stronger, the increase in their durability doesn’t really increase. Rather, their ability to negate damage and the quality of their armor increases. Primary defense against physical blows, secondary defense against physical projectiles. Affects evasion of physical blows.
Warding (WRD) New
A combination of a character’s resistance to spells, the ability of their armor to protect against spells, and their skill at warding off spells. As a character grows stronger, their willpower will increase, and thus their ability to protect themselves from spells increases as well. Additionally, higher quality armors help to further negate damage from spells. Primary defense against mystical blows, secondary defense against mystical projectiles. Affects evasion of mystical blows.
Avoid (AVO) New
The ability of a character to dodge, parry, and evade attacks. A successfully avoided negates any damage the character would have taken, the and much of the damage of a wide area spell (such as Mother Gaia or Spark Plasma) can be avoided if the brunt of the spell is avoided. Furthermore, higher avoid can turn a severe blow into a more glancing blow. As a character gets more experience, they become better able to avoid oncoming attacks, and certain armors are designed in a way to stay out of the character's way and aid with their evasion. Primary source of evasion against all blows. Affects defense against all blows in a minor way. Can reduce the magnitude of damage taken by Base Spells on successful evade.
Auxiliary Stats
Fortitude (FRT) (GS: Luck)
The ability of a character to withstand loss of stamina when struck by attacks. While stamina is the gauge of a character's poise and composure, fortitude is their ability to reduce the damage taken to stamina in the first place. Fortitude can increase slowly as a character gets stronger, but the main source of fortitude comes from the Djinn an adept resonates with. Also serves as a resistance to Vital Ailments (poison, sap, vertigo, disease, etc) and Physical Debuffs (Attack/Defense down).
Willpower (WIL) (GS: Luck)
A ability of a character to recover from maladictive effects. When inflicted with ailments and debuffs that can recover mid-battle, one's willpower allows them to shake them off earlier than their standard duration. Willpower can increase slowly as a character gets stronger, but the main source of Willpower comes from the djinn an adept resonates with. Also serves as a resistance to Spiritual Ailments (haunt, countdown, inatant-KO, etc), and Mystical Debuffs (Casting/Warding down).
Reflex (REF) (GS: Luck, Agility)
A characters speed of action and initiative in battle. Characters that tend to act quickly in battle generally have high values, while characters that are more reactive in battle tend to have lower values. As characters grow stronger, their action/reaction times increase as their reflexes improve, allowing for even quicker actions. can increase slowly as a character gets stronger, but the main source of Reflex comes from the djinn an adept resonates with. Also serves as a resistance to Volatile Ailments (Sleep, Stuff, Delusion, etc) and Skillful Debuffs (Aim/Avoid down)
Elemental Stats
[Elemental] Proficiency ([E] PRF) (GS: [E] Level)
Elemental Proficiency governs the accuracy of various effects, ailments, and debuffs. It also builds upon elemental damage - for each milestone in elemental power or resistance, the proficiency stat is added to these values in damage calculations (for every 20 points of power/resist, add proficiency). This bonus only applies to un-buffed values. When summoning, the summon adopts the summoner's elemental proficiency stats.
[Elemental] Power ([E] POW) (GS: [E] Power)
Elemental Power governs the damage inflicted or healed by an elemental ability. This acts as an additional modifier on top of the base values of a spell or ability. This affects melee, ranged, and spell abilities alike. When summoning, the summon adopts the summoner's elemental power stats.
[Elemental] Resistance ([E] RES) (GS: [E] Resist)
Elemental resistance reduces the damage inflicted by incoming elemental abilities.
Greater Application and Augmentation
These values matter not only for the character, but to their allies as well. The strengths and weaknesses of a character will be transferred to one of their party means through the resonance that occurs in party members when using alternate classes. For instance, a party has a Venus adept with high Health and Attack, but lower fortitude. It also has a Mercury adept with high Warding and Willpower, but low Attack. When the Venus adept uses Mercury-based classes, their Warding and Willpower will increase, while their Attack will lower. The Mercury adept when using Venus-based classes will likewise have their Health and Attack go up, while their Fortitude will drop.
This effect is called Elemental Augmentation - having djinn of other elements changes the flow of energy through the body, producing these effects. This is something that the adept can and will feel - it's a noticeable effect. An adept who's reflex lowers, for example, will notice their movements being a bit more sluggish, and their reflexes responding slower than they are used to. A key factor in a successful adept is to be able to rapidly adjust to the changes such things bring.
What are you good at? Some people are good at sports, showing great athleticism and endurance. Some people are good at strategy and tactics, and may find themselves enjoying more intellectual pursuits, such as chess or strategy RPGs. In fantasy settings popular in games often portray these strengths through statistical values, leading each character to have a strengths and weaknesses to set them apart from others. Gradient Soul, being a system heavily based on Golden Sun, is no exception. Unlike Golden Sun however, Gradient Soul's design philosophies necessitated a notable expansion to the statistical values Golden Sun itself used. These statistics, and what they mean, are outlined below.
Character Level
An abstract representation of a character's overall skill and experience as an adept. As they gain experience in using their spells, an adept's skills increase. While combat is not the only means of gaining experience and increasing an adept's level, it is what tends to push the adept's limits the most, and thus generates the most growth. However, Level is only a gauge of an adept's raw ability, and does not factor in things such as nuance and flexibility gained by an adept when made to use their spells in creative or subtle ways. The higher the level, the more raw ability and spells an adept has at their disposal.
Vital Stats
Health (HP) (GS: HP)
A character’s ability to remain standing when taking damage, as well as their ability to mitigate damage. This does not actually refer to how healthy or sickly they are, though. In games, as health appears to go up, it can be argued that what’s actually more accurate is that the percentage of damage that an attack would have done to the character has gone down, as the character has learned to cope with it better. When high, a character has taken little damage, perhaps a scrape or shallow cut at worst. When low, a character has taken a great many wounds, and may struggle to stay on their feet.
Energy (EP) (GS: PP)
The combination of a character innate energetic reserves and their ability to channel spells efficiently. As a character gets stronger, they don’t necessarily get more energy, but instead it can be more accurately stated that they become better at using it efficiently. Experience in using a spell has allowed the caster to be more efficient in its casting, thus it takes up a lower percentage of the caster’s energy reserves. When high, a character has plenty of energy to use, and goes about normally. When low, a character feels tired, is breathing heavily from the exertion, and if pushed too hard might collapse from exhaustion.
Balance (BP) New
A character's ability to withstand blows and fight unphased. As a character gets stronger, they are able to mitigate abilities that would exhaust and stagger them, as well as be able to withstand more punishment before being sent into that state. This stat restores itself in battle as a character regains their composure - however, should it be reduced to zero, the character enters the Staggered state. While staggered, a character cannot act, and their natural defenses are ignored by attacks. The character will recover after at the end of the next round in combat (each round being roughly 6-7 seconds of combat).
Offensive Stats
Attack (ATK) (GS: Attack)
A combination of a character’s strength, the strength of their weapon to deal physical blows, and their ability to wield the weapon effectively. As a character gets stronger, the increase in physical strength they have actually does little to affect this stat – rather, having better weapons and getting more skillful with those weapons is where much of the growth in the stat comes from. Primary source of damage for physical weapons, secondary source of damage for physical projectile weapons. Affects accuracy of physical blows.
Casting (CST) New
A combination of a character’s innate psynergetic might, the strength of their weapon to channel psynergy, and their ability to wield spells effectively. As a character gets stronger, though their innate psynergetic might may increase, the main source of increasing casting comes from being more effective with their spells and gaining higher quality weapons. Primary source of damage for mystic weapons, secondary source of damage for mystical projectile weapons. Affects accuracy of mystical blows.
Aim (AIM) New
A gauge of a character's ability to land blows and spells accurately. As a character gains more experience, they are able to judge their blows more effectively. Additionally, well built weapons make this easier for the character. Aim isn't just about hitting the target, though - it is also about hitting the intended part of the target. As a result, it also factors into the ability for characters to do damage. Primary source of damage for projectile weapons, secondary source of damage for all other weapons. Affects accuracy of all blows.
Defensive Stats
Defense (DEF) (GS: Defense)
A combination of a character’s durability, the strength of their armor to protect against physical blows, and their skill to negate physical damage. As a character grows stronger, the increase in their durability doesn’t really increase. Rather, their ability to negate damage and the quality of their armor increases. Primary defense against physical blows, secondary defense against physical projectiles. Affects evasion of physical blows.
Warding (WRD) New
A combination of a character’s resistance to spells, the ability of their armor to protect against spells, and their skill at warding off spells. As a character grows stronger, their willpower will increase, and thus their ability to protect themselves from spells increases as well. Additionally, higher quality armors help to further negate damage from spells. Primary defense against mystical blows, secondary defense against mystical projectiles. Affects evasion of mystical blows.
Avoid (AVO) New
The ability of a character to dodge, parry, and evade attacks. A successfully avoided negates any damage the character would have taken, the and much of the damage of a wide area spell (such as Mother Gaia or Spark Plasma) can be avoided if the brunt of the spell is avoided. Furthermore, higher avoid can turn a severe blow into a more glancing blow. As a character gets more experience, they become better able to avoid oncoming attacks, and certain armors are designed in a way to stay out of the character's way and aid with their evasion. Primary source of evasion against all blows. Affects defense against all blows in a minor way. Can reduce the magnitude of damage taken by Base Spells on successful evade.
Auxiliary Stats
Fortitude (FRT) (GS: Luck)
The ability of a character to withstand loss of stamina when struck by attacks. While stamina is the gauge of a character's poise and composure, fortitude is their ability to reduce the damage taken to stamina in the first place. Fortitude can increase slowly as a character gets stronger, but the main source of fortitude comes from the Djinn an adept resonates with. Also serves as a resistance to Vital Ailments (poison, sap, vertigo, disease, etc) and Physical Debuffs (Attack/Defense down).
Willpower (WIL) (GS: Luck)
A ability of a character to recover from maladictive effects. When inflicted with ailments and debuffs that can recover mid-battle, one's willpower allows them to shake them off earlier than their standard duration. Willpower can increase slowly as a character gets stronger, but the main source of Willpower comes from the djinn an adept resonates with. Also serves as a resistance to Spiritual Ailments (haunt, countdown, inatant-KO, etc), and Mystical Debuffs (Casting/Warding down).
Reflex (REF) (GS: Luck, Agility)
A characters speed of action and initiative in battle. Characters that tend to act quickly in battle generally have high values, while characters that are more reactive in battle tend to have lower values. As characters grow stronger, their action/reaction times increase as their reflexes improve, allowing for even quicker actions. can increase slowly as a character gets stronger, but the main source of Reflex comes from the djinn an adept resonates with. Also serves as a resistance to Volatile Ailments (Sleep, Stuff, Delusion, etc) and Skillful Debuffs (Aim/Avoid down)
Elemental Stats
[Elemental] Proficiency ([E] PRF) (GS: [E] Level)
Elemental Proficiency governs the accuracy of various effects, ailments, and debuffs. It also builds upon elemental damage - for each milestone in elemental power or resistance, the proficiency stat is added to these values in damage calculations (for every 20 points of power/resist, add proficiency). This bonus only applies to un-buffed values. When summoning, the summon adopts the summoner's elemental proficiency stats.
[Elemental] Power ([E] POW) (GS: [E] Power)
Elemental Power governs the damage inflicted or healed by an elemental ability. This acts as an additional modifier on top of the base values of a spell or ability. This affects melee, ranged, and spell abilities alike. When summoning, the summon adopts the summoner's elemental power stats.
[Elemental] Resistance ([E] RES) (GS: [E] Resist)
Elemental resistance reduces the damage inflicted by incoming elemental abilities.
Greater Application and Augmentation
These values matter not only for the character, but to their allies as well. The strengths and weaknesses of a character will be transferred to one of their party means through the resonance that occurs in party members when using alternate classes. For instance, a party has a Venus adept with high Health and Attack, but lower fortitude. It also has a Mercury adept with high Warding and Willpower, but low Attack. When the Venus adept uses Mercury-based classes, their Warding and Willpower will increase, while their Attack will lower. The Mercury adept when using Venus-based classes will likewise have their Health and Attack go up, while their Fortitude will drop.
This effect is called Elemental Augmentation - having djinn of other elements changes the flow of energy through the body, producing these effects. This is something that the adept can and will feel - it's a noticeable effect. An adept who's reflex lowers, for example, will notice their movements being a bit more sluggish, and their reflexes responding slower than they are used to. A key factor in a successful adept is to be able to rapidly adjust to the changes such things bring.
HP, PP, Attack, Defense, Agility, Luck, Elemental Level (x4), Elemental Power (x4), and Elemental Resist (x4).
Of these, five stats were a bit less intuitive:
Luck actually serves as effect/ailment resistance and recovery.
Elemental Level (all four of them) acted as both effect/ailment resistance, and effect/ailment offense. This stat was also used to determine a character's class.
In addition, there were additional statistical values there were not core stats, but still present:
Unleash Rate, HP Regen, and PP Regen
Giving us a total of 21 stats in the game (6 Core, 12 elemental, 3 misc). Despite what some of the game text may imply, evasion and accuracy are not stats in Golden Sun, and critical hits and unleashes share a stat.
This brings us to our current conversation. What will the stats be in this game? Which are core stats, which are not? Do we rename stats to be more clear to their purpose? Do we split stats across others based on some thematic approach? There are many things that can be done, so propose what you would like to see, and we'll get to discussing. Above is an updated post from the Golden Sun amino referencing this subject using a separate GS-based project as reference/inspiration.
Operate under the assumption that we will will edit damage formulas to take better advantage of stats than was done in the Golden Sun games should it be called for.
Personally, here's what I'd want to see (Core stats in bold, elemental in blue, and misc stats unformatted):
- Health/HP
- Energy/EP
- Attack
- Casting
- Defense
- Warding
- Agility
- Resilience
- Elemental Proficiency (per element)
- Elemental Power (per element)
- Elemental Resistance (per element)
- HP Regen
- PP Regen
- Critical Hit rate
- Unleash Rate
This brings the stats to a total of 8 Core, 12 Elemental, and 4 Misc. I think we should divorce Proficiency (better name for ELevel imo) from the class system, and have that look at the actual equipped djinn instead of element level. I think Luck should be renamed to Resilience or something similar, to help convey its purpose. I think Crits and Unleashes should be separated from each other, and both options that can be spec'd in, with crits reflecting the strength of the adept (scaling with attacker level, unlike defender level like they did in GS proper), and unleashes scaling with the weapon (added damage based on a weapon's power). I would recommend that unleashes themselves can actually hit critically if both checks succeed.
This keeps things similar to golden sun, while also allowing spellcasters to have potential to be built like the warrior characters were in golden sun, allowing for a wider, more diverse potential for ways to build characters. At the same time, it adds something new to help stand out a bit more from golden sun, potentially offering a bit more depth and nuance than GS without getting lost in complex mechanics.