|
Post by WitchRolina on Nov 11, 2018 1:32:38 GMT
From WitchRolina : In this thread we will be discussing the idea of having fantastic biomes as a normal thing in the world. Note that it should be understood that this is not the same thing as locations like Air's Rock, which the idea poster categorized separately as "Wonderous Locales" in discord. This is normal biomes, but with a fantastical twist to them based on the idea of the elements and fundaments just being a part of nature.
|
|
|
Post by shawnullah on Nov 11, 2018 2:09:38 GMT
Piggybacking off of that idea, I had an idea of my own. In the real world, cities/towns/village are situated in proximity to resources for either survival or economics/commerce. With that in mind, we could come up with some fantastical, symbiotic relationships between the humans and the surrounding geography. For example in this world's past, deforestation was a giant issue due to man stripping the forest of all crystalline growth in the name of fashion and vanity. In the current age in which the game takes place, there are now government laws making this practice illegal. Was it because the deforestation caused the area to become hazardous? (e.g., the crystalline forest diffracted sunlight. With the crystal plants/trees gone, satellite life some range away from the forest couldn't live thus affecting the ability to grow livestock and hunt AND the once diffracted sunlight is now concentrated in areas the humans are inhabiting, baking those settlements in high temperatures.) Or was the forest a holy site for beastmen and desecrating the site incited a holy war? These biomes can open up a lot of possibilities. This is not even touching on the types of creatures/monsters dwelling in these places.
|
|
|
Post by zeldafan30 on Nov 11, 2018 2:15:53 GMT
I think that this right here...
THIS. Right here!
Is one of the key what will set us apart from Golden Sun. 'Course, I don't think we should go TOO crazy with it, but I think we should have just enough of it. But, what is just enough? Well, the entire world shouldn't be filled with these kinds of biomes. I think we should have some regular plain old ones as well (or at least have them seem plain and simple, like the Mars plains).
I remember someone (don't remember who) brought up the idea of a glowing forest that where the trees start to float during nighttime. I think this could be a fantastic biome, and maybe even a dungeon if we had some sort of mechanic (maybe a utility psynergy) that changed night and day. (Now thinking about it, that may sound super absurd...)
but, to be honest, when it comes to actually coming with ideas for fantastical biomes, I'm pretty terrible. Can't lie about that one. I dunno why I guess I'm too stuck to reality. Or I'm boring. i dunno. I'll give it a shot though.
|
|
|
Post by WitchRolina on Nov 11, 2018 2:19:26 GMT
Aye, it could work rather well. Sometimes you can get interesting combinations, too - take a job that's old as dirt in our mundane world and interpret it in a fantasy world. Mining happens often in mountainous terrain to my understanding, right? Well, I've always been fond of a floatstone mine idea. A village that mines it would have basic airships employed to ship miners and cargo. As the mine starts to run dry, the floating islands the ore creates gradually begin to sink down to the ground. How high they are is a great way of judging how much ore each mine has in it - once the mines land, they know it's running low. And that's just large floating islands formed of a certain ore being concentrated in those mountains. There's a wide range of ideas we can have like that. Even instances of direct human intervention in our world could have similar examples, where certain species are bred in certain ways. Look at what's happened to our crops, for example. Imagine breeding all these crops in specialized ways to get the most out of a specific trait deemed beneficial. zeldafan30 : I think simple ones should be the norm, actually. We could have something like - most biomes are simple, then you have a few interesting ones that are complex, and then a few wonderous locales. That would make up what our game's world is like, right? Plus, look at the deserts from golden sun I listed - each one is basically a desert, but could be argued to have a different elemental theme. I think we should build our areas with that philosophy in mind, so that even similar areas we make have a clearly distinct feel from one another.
|
|
|
Post by firedjinn on Nov 11, 2018 5:43:44 GMT
These ideas sound really cool.... I still haven't got anything to contribute yet, but I'll see what I can do. I really like the float mines and the crystal forest especially, so maybe I'll draw that.
edit: have some art! a crystal forest:
|
|
capy
New Member
Posts: 24
|
Post by capy on Nov 11, 2018 7:22:28 GMT
I think it would be interesting to look at how this would effect what kind of monsters you find in the locale as they would most likely be influenced by the same alchemical force, especially any boss monsters. In terms of items used for crafting equipment they could also originate from these locales like crystaline wood to make some artifact weapons. Heck even puzzle elements hinge on the type of location so this is definitely something that can make a location more memorable. I could see stretches of the overworld also being covered in types of locations like this so it would look less like the same trees, landscape and mountains when you traverse it.
|
|
ndrs
Programmer
Posts: 39
|
Post by ndrs on Nov 11, 2018 16:37:23 GMT
I really like the idea, and I think it's going to give the world a really interesting "cozy" feel if done well. I'm looking forward to see artwork following this idea :)
|
|
|
Post by disastercube on Nov 20, 2018 3:48:48 GMT
I have a raw idea for an area based on (Plains + Mars + Jupiter). I'm posting it here, but let me know if there's a google doc I missed or something where this should belong.
=========
Asphodel
Named after the fields of torture and punishment found in the underworld in Greek mythology. <- Edit: Just realized this is inaccurate, but I'm keeping the name as a placeholder.
Asphodel is a plain that sits on the crossroads between three major [countries/cities]. A long time ago, it was home to thriving trade routes and merchant communities, until the war between [the three nations]. During that war, [mars nation] and [jupiter nation] teamed up against [nation 3]. The Mars and Jupiter armies used their powers to create a magical storm to rain fire throughout the plains to destroy their enemy. However, the Mars and Jupiter nations were unable to undo the psynergy that created the storm, leaving a perpetual weather system above the plain that occasionally rains fire throughout the area. As a result, almost no one lives in the plains anymore, except those desperate or cunning enough to scrape out an existence in some of the caves, fortresses, and remaining shelters in the area. No wildlife except those monsters that could withstand the harsh fire rains remain in this area.
At some points in the year the fire rains become less frequent, and a few brave travelers and merchant groups can be found traversing the ragged roads that still cut through the plain between different nations, often hoping for some lucrative trade or a quicker way home than going around the surrounding mountains/societies. =========
This concept can be modified as needed--I mostly liked the idea of a region defined by a man-made psynergy disaster that spun beyond anyone's control.
|
|
|
Post by WitchRolina on Nov 20, 2018 12:27:55 GMT
The problem with that is the elemental nations. Can you rewrite that with normal nations in mind?
We really need to write down the decisions we made early on the project and point people to them.
|
|
|
Post by Anggel on Nov 21, 2018 1:45:17 GMT
This is abstraction that came into my mind to ease up the thinking process of biomes (or this is my intention, I hope this comes handy!). Keep in mind I just thought of them in a simple way without any given contextualization on a story, just a symbolic approach following a pattern. Because element system is not done yet, but I see some coincidences on Elements + Fundaments/Aspects in the 4x4 table (that seems the option that's winning in the poll right now) I did this list: Element | Coincidence 1 | Coincidence 2 | Coincidence 3 | Coincidence 4 | Venus | Plants | Decay | Stone | - | Mars | Flame | Explosion/Explosive | Redox | Heat | Jupiter | Air | Lightning | - | - | Mercury | Aurora | Ice | Water | Steam |
The first column denotates the element reign (Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Mercury), the other columns denotates its aspects that has a coincidence in all 4x4 poll entries as the date of this post. This table is not sorted by aspect, doesn't have an order, just a table of coincidences. Hyphened cells are empty because there's are missing coincidences in that element
Given that table, I tried to abstract the process of biome thinking just with a full table of possibilities and easing up a bit the process (but some funky biomes outside the scope of this post can be thought of, and I encourage you to do so, this is just for having a base we can work with) Right now the biomes as Rolina stated follows an approach of: Terrain + Element + Aspect (optional) Rolina's examples follows this trend, for instance: Crystal Forest = Forest + Venus + (Aspect that makes it Crystal). With this in mind, I made a list of IRL terrains (I'm a little biased since I've played Minecraft, but I tried to find other IRL non-MC biomes too; but you can find some others too!): - Swamp.
- Forest.
- Tunnel/Cavern/Underground.
- Plains.
- Glacier.
- Volcanic terrain.
- Tundra.
- Desert.
- Jungle.
- Bamboo forest
- Savannah.
- A terrain where a waterfall is the most important thing.
- Mountain/s.
- Steppes.
- Mangrove biome.
- Reefs.
- Wide rivers.
- Taiga.
- Chaparral.
- Agricultural fields.
- Places where there's more buildings than a given biome (cities, capitals).
- Places where there's an even distribution of biome and buildings (villages).
- Places where there's an less buildings than a given biome (ruins, isolated monument).
- Beaches.
- Islands.
- Karst (no GS:TLA pun intended).
- Cenotes.
- Canyons.
- Underwater places.
- Underlava places.
- Frozen desert.
- Marsh.
- Moonsoon forest
- Lakes
- Tar lakes.
- Depressions
- A lot more...
Also some non-IRL biomes that are classical though:
- Biomes that has clouds as the base of the biome.
- Place with high amounts of magic.
- Sacred place.
- Miasma/cursed place.
- Place with low amounts of magic or not any.
- Floating place
- A lot more...
So Terrain could be: With these in mind the thought process is easen up a bit. Also some variants of Terrain + Element + Aspect (optional) can be made! This is a general formula:
[One or more Terrain] + [One or more Element+Aspect (optional)]
These are examples that I came to my mind: Terrain 1 | Terrain 2 | Terrain 3 | [E+A(opt.)]-1 | [E+A(opt.)]-2
| Description | Glacier |
|
| Redox | Steam(?) | Corrosive glacier. If you melt an "ice" of this glacier it can corrode skin, also it's gas produced on melting is toxic. | Cenote |
|
| Aurora |
| A wondrous cenote where water perform on the cenote's walls light coloured auroras due to combo of light and mist. | Reef |
|
| Air |
| Bubbly reef (with air's high power lot's of bubbly platforms can be made) | Tundra |
|
| Explosive |
| A tundra where if you mistep, terrain explodes and you'll fall. | Bamboo forest | Moonsoon forest |
| Lightning | Stone | A mixture of a bamboo forest with the high density plant, and rainy features of a moonsoon biome. Due to the hard coat of the trees and it's leaves (like stone), frequent lightning that happen doesn't put in fire the trees. In fact, they make it somewhat conductive and they gleam, so when it's night trees are frequently iluminated with the lightning strikes. | Floating place | Canyon | Miasma/cursed place | Decay |
| A crumbled canyon that floats in the sky but because of low gases due to high altitude, and low nutrients, it's dry and decay. It's also a place that secrets miasma from the notches of the stones that are desertificated. With life gasses being low, and miasma high, this is a place that is unsafe for normal living creatures. |
And some more... I can't think of more right now, it's late here xD.
As I've said, this is a first approach scheme, but some other system or model of biome thinking are appreciated so we can have systems to be creative!
|
|
|
Post by WitchRolina on Nov 21, 2018 14:09:36 GMT
We can also assign fundaments instead of elements. I gave the idea of a swamp or marsh aligned with Luna.
On the grid I has others help fill, Luna is associated with the forms of: Decay, Redox, Void, and Water. Using an interpretation of void that allows for gravity to be used as an expression of it, we get:
The Bone Swamp - A swamp thick with the deathbloom fungus, causing many fungal-undead type enemies (Last Of Us zombies, rather than the traditional ones). This gives us a monster type to have prominent in the area. The place is difficult to navigate with all the water, and there are hazards that will damage the player if they cross them (though they could lead to shortcuts or goodies). There are places where plants grow lower or higher than normal, and in these areas there are places that the player can use void-based field psynergy (gravity based makes most sense to me) in order to navigate the area, releasing gravity on stones shoved into the swamp to provide platforms, and increasing it to lower tall plants over hazardous crossings to get across safely.
That's just Swamp + Luna. It's as useful to use fundaments to craft these places as it is to use elements! :D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2018 22:30:36 GMT
Mars + Swamp = Oily place with perpetual oil fires & choking fumes/smog
|
|
|
Post by disastercube on Nov 24, 2018 2:18:49 GMT
The problem with that is the elemental nations. Can you rewrite that with normal nations in mind? We really need to write down the decisions we made early on the project and point people to them. I went and modified my earlier idea:
======
AsphodelAsphodel is a plain that sits on the crossroads between three major [countries/cities]. A long time ago, it was home to thriving trade routes and merchant communities, until the war between [the three nations]. During that war, [nation A] and [nation B] teamed up against [nation C]. The first two nations each had a powerful Mars and Jupiter artifact, and combined their combined powers to create a magical storm to rain fire throughout the plains to destroy their enemy. However, the two nations were unable to undo the psynergy that created the storm, leaving a perpetual weather system above the plain that occasionally rains fire throughout the area. As a result, almost no one lives in the plains anymore, except those desperate or cunning enough to scrape out an existence in some of the caves, fortresses, and remaining shelters in the area. No wildlife except those monsters that could withstand the harsh fire rains remain in this area. At some points in the year the fire rains become less frequent, and a few brave travelers and merchant groups can be found traversing the ragged roads that still cut through the plain between different nations.
======
We could also modify this slightly in one or two ways.
We could alter this to instead say that [nation C] had a psynergy machine (maybe something like a lighthouse?) that was designed to bring helpful rains to the area. [Nation A/B] infiltrates [nation C] and modifies their psynergy machine to bring rains of fire instead, but are unable to to undo the modification.
The other way we could alter this is to say that [nation A/B] attracted a powerful summon/monster to the area that causes it to rain fire, but they are unable to reign it in or defeat it like they hoped. Though I need to go back and reread what our decisions are on what role summons take in this game so I have the right understanding of them in mind.
|
|
|
Post by WitchRolina on Jan 12, 2019 0:03:36 GMT
Anywho, since the idea behind this is pretty popular, and the methodology we'd approach is pretty though out, then I might move for a vote. If I get some nods for that, then I'll make the write up for the vote based on what's been discussed here.
|
|
|
Post by Taz on Jan 13, 2019 2:39:18 GMT
I'm going to vote Nay, but I feel like I should add that this is only because this might be beyond the scope of our game to include every possible fantastic environment we can think of, and that we should probably save that for more of a globetrotting odyssey more than anything, rather than try and burn through all our ideas in just a single country. This being said, some fantastic biomes I feel should definitely happen in our game . . . just not all of them.
|
|